Tony joins Trey of Subversion Webcast to dissect Sam Harris’ recent conversation on White Power.
Christian Picciolini is a former white supremacist with a violent past. Over time, he saw the error of his ways, and now works to reform young men in the white power movement.
Trey and Tony take issue with some of the views and conclusions of both Harris and Picciolini.
Topics discussed: Mainstream Media, Stefan Molyneux, Alt Right, the Russia narrative, and white privilege/white guilt.
Listen to Harris and Picciolini’s Conversation:
Conversation of Harris with Douglas Murray:
Molyneux Talks To Murray:
For sake of representing the specific charges against Molyneux, this is the clip that many people criticize:
Another Criticism of Molyneux:
Trey’s Show Notes (timestamps from Waking Up with Sam Harris podcast episode with Christian Picciolini)
Conspiracy theory simply pivoted to a new boogyman: from Jews to whiteness
Genuinely curious if he can delineate a disaffected unemployed white person from the rust belt from a well polished white supremacist.
Good points he makes:
6:00 – Details that not only people from broken homes become radicalized. Important point when we talk about Jihadism as well
15:00 – Potholes analogy. Great metaphor, and I think this is useful. What broke the cycle of his association with the white supremacist movement was having someone reach out an olive branch.
53:00 – Silence and violence are both bad ways to confront extremists
1:06:00 – Dylan Roof, radicalized partially by fake news. This is a complicated point for me, there’s good and bad in this short little clip of audio.
1:40:00 – Chris both says that all we have to do is admit that we’re a white supremacist nation. Then when asked about what to tell black people he seems to not have thought about that much, and instead dodges the question in lieu of a shaming of white people again for gentrification, immediately after shaming white people for segregating blacks in Chicago.
1:48:00 – Audience member calls out Chris for being hard on the right and strawmanning people like Molyneux (on the point of holocaust denialism) and Jordan Peterson (the implication of him being alt-right), and making the point that the dishonesty of the left has to be part of the discussion on pushing people to the fringe right. (btw, audience member was black)
Bad points he makes:
33:00 – Says white supremacy has seeped into mainstream society. examples he uses later is affirmative action, and if you’re against it, you’re the useful idiot of nazis….
36:30 – Says there’s no difference between nazis and ISIS…preening about how we never call white people terrorists
39:00 – Russia, Russia, Russia!
45:45 – America has never faced it’s history of racism
1:15:00 – While earlier making the point that being given the time of day is part of what broke his relationship to nazism, Harris and Christian both advocate insulating media from being cordial to these people. Seems backward. 15 minutes later makes the point that the person you’re debating isn’t the person you’re trying to reach, it’s the people watching who are on the fence about a given idea that you’re trying to convince. (back to 1:15:00) Then says Molyneux is a cult leader..
1:28:30 – In response to a question, Harris appeals to public education as the panacea for white supremacy.
Unfortunately he seems to imply that we’re all one bad experience away from being a nazi.
I really wish Chris would have talked more about the ideology of neo-nazism, because I’m curious to actually hear what they think the policy prescriptions ought to be. Reason being, I’m suspicious of the implication that neo-nazism is mainstream, all he did was preen about it, never offered great examples or parallels between the contemporary right and nazism.